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Live X Space with Flexa August 18th, 2026 — Transcript · YTtoTranscript

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Live X Space with Flexa August 18th, 2026

Seph Divine · 10,669 words · 53 min read · EN

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Below is the complete, readable transcript of Live X Space with Flexa August 18th, 2026 by Seph Divine on YouTube. Read the full text, copy any part you need, or generate a transcript for any video with our free tool.

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[music] >> All right. Hello everybody. Welcome to our what is the third Xspace now? Upneet, I think we're on three at this point. Um excited to have you all joining us. Just real quick mic check. Upneet, are you able to hear me? >> I'm here. Can you hear me? >> I don't know if that was broken up on my

side or your side, but I think we're good to go. >> Let's Let's try this again. Can you hear me okay? >> That sounds much less than the first time around. All right, cool. Well, first of all, thanks everybody for being here. I am excited to see how this timing works, um especially

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going back and forth with some folks on Twitter. We're We're just trying to maximize participation. We want everyone to have a chance to ask their questions live if they have them. We also switched up the format a little bit. Today's format is a little bit of a a grab bag. We um requested questions in advance and

and have a lot of good questions that were shared across a a bunch of different topics. I also hope we'll have a chance to answer a couple of questions live. I saw some questions about final and um I'm really hoping and and kind of planning that we can dig into that work at the end of the

the space cuz there's a lot of interesting progress that's happening on that front that we haven't had a chance to talk about yet. Maybe we can spare 20 or even 30 minutes to get there. Um real real quick, first I just want to lay out some ground rules. We We did this during the first space and I think

it was helpful. Um we're going to have folks be able to answer questions live or sorry, ask questions that we will answer live. If the connection's bad, we might ask you to send us your question in a reply instead. Um and and disconnect you. No hard feelings, it's just trying to make things easy and efficient for everybody.

We're also not going to answer any questions that we've already answered. So, if we've answered a question on a previous space or we answer a question even on this space and you ask it again, we're just going to be a polite uh ask that you listen to the recording after the fact. So, again, hope this is going to open up

the opportunity for folks all around the world to ask us some questions about what's on their mind. Um but before we get into the Q&A, uh some big news hit just a couple hours ago. The SEC released their uh uh, reg crypto um, proposal. And I know there's still a public notice period, but

Upneek, um, was wondering if you wouldn't mind giving us some of your thoughts or early read of that. I know it's only 2 hours hot off the press. >> Sure, no. You're you're right. Only uh, it came out only a couple hours ago and um, you know, it means different things for different people, but I I think the

the big upshot here is it just became a lot easier for projects to uh, to get off the ground, raise some capital, um, and it also provides a little bit of a framework on on on how to be um, uh, exempt from uh, you know, certain types of classifications. So, um, I know

6 7 years ago we would have loved to see something like this. Uh, I remember those conversations. I remember talking to former SEC people at the time. Uh, this is a topic that Danny and I uh, talked about when we um, when we visited with the SEC crypto task force um, uh, a summer ago and um, and and really just

uh, a refreshing approach. Um, obviously this is still open to a comment period and I am sure there will be lots of comments uh, you know, in favor and and supportive and uh, and and also some some you know, critical feedback, but I think overall it um, it it provides a a real tailwind for the entire industry

and and and really opens up uh, opportunity for for folks to to get projects off the ground really. Um, you know, again, um, I you know, I'm reading this and I'm thinking I really wish this was this came out 6 7 years ago. >> [laughter] >> You know, what what a different uh, you

know, what a different set of um you know type what what a different approach um you know companies like Flexa and and you know other other projects would have taken. So, um so really excited for this and I'm sure uh in the coming days um you know we'll we'll be able to sort of distill

our thoughts and you know where we see opportunity uh in in in light of this new uh development. >> Well, better late than never I suppose. Uh hopefully this is going to set a standard for other countries around the world, but um it's been a while since we've seen something positive and clarifying come

out from the US government. So, this is exciting. Um okay. Well, let's let's roll into the Q&A. Thanks for that perspective Abhinav. And obviously if anyone has any questions about an early read of that, uh feel free to chime in as we get to the live Q&A later, but uh Abhinav, do you mind uh

kick us off? >> Yeah, happy to. Um you know as Trevor mentioned, there were lots of questions and we and we think this is a a really great way to address all of them. Um we noticed that there were a few themes in in the types of questions that were being asked and the topics. So,

um so we did is um you know we we're not going to answer hundreds of questions today, but uh we'll answer the ones that we think um address most if not all of the of of the the questions that came up uh within those themes and um and you know of course uh

open forum, you know, we'll we'll welcome more questions uh later today and uh and in future spaces. So, uh we'll start off with the first one. Uh I know this came from a few different sources, but um question was what you know or or the comment was would love to hear if Flexa's at all concerned about the price

of Amp and uh at what price point of Amp or what year would there be no more operational runway. >> Yeah, so we got a few questions about AMP and we are not going to be shy ever about answering questions about AMP. Just don't want to repeat ourselves to save everyone's time. I will say this, we are very comfortable

with not only the runway prospects that Flexa has established for itself, but also uh other long-term opportunities to further extend that runway if we need to. Uh I don't think that that is going to be an issue for us and when we think about the use cases for AMP uh and we'll get

into this in a second. Uh you know, the the way the token is designed and the economics, the model through which we can exert um some some pressure on that token in order to make it useful collateral as uh the the payment volume of the network increases, that is uh the system working as designed. And so,

we we are in this for the long game. We think about um ups and downs of the market in terms of years, not necessarily in terms of uh a span of a few weeks or days. I know in in some cases, especially if folks have have just recently started to dabble in crypto, um

it can sometimes feel like a market downturn is in this sort of like infinite uh drawdown of of patience and energy and focus and uh I think we've done a good job of of being more um say healthily focused on the long term, but that there is really no price points for which AMP would destroy uh Flexa's

runway because of the responsible decisions we've made in in sort of managing Flexa's runway. Um and furthermore, even if AMP were to go down to 0.000000, you know, 10 zeros one uh dollar, heaven forbid, uh that would indicate uh not a lot of activity is is being used against that collateral, but we still believe that this is a

an example of of perhaps the world's only truly independent neutral digital collateral token. And the the fact that it has a fixed and capped supply, the fact that it can be used in all the different ways that the collateral matters can draw on it. Um, that that would just mean that there's uh, more

opportunity for for use cases like what Flexa is building and and what Finaly is building, which I hope to get to in a little bit. to pull on that collateral and um, and and for that collateral to be useful again. So, I I just wanted to make sure we get out the gate and and thanks for

asking this question first, I mean, um, we're not we're not concerned at this point about the price of AMP. It's not something that we focus on week to week. It's something that we think about, um, obviously in the long term in terms of sustaining different types of uh, large-scale payments on the network, but

it's it's not an issue for us at the moment. >> Thanks, Trevor. Um, we had another question about AMP. Uh, this is from Mike. I And the question was that I appreciate appreciate some clarity on whether AMP still has a role going forward. >> Yeah, of course. >> My my answer My My answer is yes.

My answer is yes. You can elaborate. >> Yeah, like I said, we're we're focused on um, the business of creating novel payments experiences and and value transfer technology that uh, we believe it is rooted in this collateralization technology. We've invested a lot of time and energy and money into patents that protect that

collateralization process. We are also at at the same time going where there is merchant demand for those business use cases. And I think a lot of our recent focus on agentic commerce is a is a good example of that, right? We we have uh, started to see some of the in-person demand for

for crypto payments um take maybe second fiddle with some of our merchant partners to thinking about new and novel use cases just because they've been tracking some of the um adoption over time or maybe even some of the prospective merchants. I think we've seen a little bit of the the previous focus on well, how do I help my my

customers pay in person with Bitcoin to how do I work on accepting stable coins so I can be ahead of this upcoming wave of agenda commerce. And I say some, I don't think that all of our merchants have that perspective. But those are the types of telltales that we pay attention to and um spend a

lot of [clears throat] time thinking about. Uh you know, I just want to briefly mention I I think looking at the list of questions here, there was someone who asked if if FedNow or RTP is still projected and I know that's been a hot topic that we might have mentioned on a past space, but uh

I just think it bears mentioning that that FedNow and RTP was something that one merchant asked us to support a while back. They changed their plans and it's no longer something that they they want us to um enable for them. They've since moved to USDC settlement instead. That is uh an answer to what we're thinking about

with regards to FedNow and RTP and it's something we'll still look to integrate as a a merchant comes to us and asks for it. But that's our MO. We we ask merchants what they want or they come and tell us. We then build what they want and that's how we have have run our

business for the last 8 years and that's probably what we're going to continue to do for the foreseeable future. Uh so in terms of of answering the original question around whether AMP still has a role going forward, I guess I would just say uh we believe that collateralization is the key to delivering all of Flexa's

business use cases and uh we haven't found anything better than AMP to serve that role. So, of course uh yes, AMP still has a role going forward and I don't see that changing anytime soon. >> Thanks, Trevor. Um we we also had a couple of questions about capacity and a little bit more

technical in nature. So, we had a question about from Bartastic asking, "Can the team find a way to allow users to rotate wallets in capacity while still maintaining tenure?" >> Yes, I am I'm glad you picked this one and I think Barky is with us today. So, we love this idea. This has been

something that has started to creep up the the um backlog of of priority and is something that we've started thinking about a little bit more recently for a number of different reasons. I don't think it's going to be a 6-month fix, but we will look to enable some way to maintain tenure against a

wallet and and assign that tenure to another wallet because key rotation is something that we've been seeing uh become more and more important to the the broader ecosystem. Something we've always cared about um even for privacy-preserving um reasons and and so uh yes, this is something we we hope to launch in the

near future and and we are talking to the Anvil team about uh how to most easily enable. >> Yeah, I think again, yeah, in terms of security um for users, security is uh you know, security and privacy are both paramount interests for for us and um and and preserving for our users. So, um really really glad to hear

that and uh glad to hear that there's some collaboration on that front. Um there's another question. I I know this has come up a few times. Um it was a question I I think most recently asked by Brian. Um are you aware of the issues that Coinbase Base Wallet is having when connecting to moving tokens around in

capacity? There appears to be an issue with base mode and legacy mode within the wallet. Is this something that you guys are able to assist with base with TIVIX? >> Yeah, we Well, I should just add some color here. The base app has moved around a little bit in the Coinbase internal org chart and is now being run

uh separate from the base chain team, which is a a kind of significant departure from how things were set up before. So, we are uh working to counterbalance some of the the changes that are being made uh within the app while it focuses on expanding to support additional chains. Uh I I think

base app is still a great experience. It's incredibly well-designed app and the addition of more chains beyond base and beyond EVM uh my understanding is is just going to make it easier for us to have that experience uh reach more users and and that's always going to increase the total available um or the the total

addressable market for for Flexa's product. So, something we're obviously supportive of. When features like this break, uh that sucks and is something that we have to try and troubleshoot and work to fix. Sometimes it breaks in unexpected ways. So, we are definitely on top of this. This is something that we are uh staying on top of week to week. It's

it's just not been as easy to fix as we expected uh as things get changed and then reverted. But, we are hoping to have a fix for this within the next couple of weeks. Um I just wanted to make sure this was included so we could share some of that additional context about why this has happened. It's not

something that we have uh altered on our side. It's just sort of the the process of continually staying on top of wallet technology improving and wallet priorities shifting uh and making sure that we are able to react to that as quickly as possible. This has just been a little bit trickier than usual.

>> Yeah, I I I mean, it would it would always be great if uh if the wallet developers would you know, telegraph uh any any anticipated upgrades in in advance, but um but alas, uh sometimes we have to uh react address them after the fact, yeah. >> Um we had a question about partnerships

uh switching gears a bit. Um so, we had a question from AmpWell67 um or AmpWell67 asking what happened with Shopify? >> Yeah, so I think these next few questions are all about partnerships and um I worked with I need to make sure we can include some of these because I just think everyone deserves to know and I

think it's time for us to start sharing a little bit more about uh these different types of projects and what we worked on. I think the simple answer to what happened with Shopify is that the SEC intervened and uh Shopify's compliance team found that our model of collateralization was not something they were comfortable with and we went

through a number of different processes with them up to and including uh a uh model they proposed where we would cut Amp out of the entire supply chain and we just realized we couldn't guarantee our merchant value proposition um when we got to that. So, it was very unfortunate. We we had had

several in-person meetings. We had coded the integration uh and just the timing of the SEC's uh case against the Wahi brothers, it it really just brought down that entire partnership. And I thought it would be useful to share that here um because of a couple of reasons. One, it dovetails nicely with what we were saying earlier

around going where there's merchant demand. We actually to this day have not had a ton of uh merchant interest from merchants who are on Shopify coming Flexa's way. We've had a few meetings that have led to uh maybe we'll put this on our Q3 Q3 roadmap, for example, but nothing um substantial that has

uh caused us to really try and uh find a workaround that would bring the Shopify integration to life. Secondly, uh I I know Danny's mentioned this in the past. I have mentioned it privately and publicly probably a bunch of times. The number of finish line uh reversals that we have experienced at Flexa has been

more than I can count on two hands and uh some of the most gut-wrenching, heartbreaking um experiences that I I've had as a founder. There are more that will see the light of day sometime, I'm sure. And and uh I know there are some folks on this call who have borne witness to

those firsthand. But Shopify was one of those where we were so close to being, I think, one of the first five launch partners and uh this SEC case came out of nowhere. So that Gensler would have some some authority or or regulation by enforcement in the space. And uh it it torpedoed that entire partnership and uh

what, 200 merchants we had on the waitlist for for years. So, that is the long and short of what happened with Shopify. I'm sure there are some more details that I could share that are missing um maybe in a a future space of some kind, but uh if there is another large merchant

who comes to us and says that they want to get us uh live on their site and they happen to use Shopify, we have no qualms about picking it up and I I do believe that Shopify would be much more open at this point to uh integrating with us. I If I remember

correctly, there were there was a few um terms on their website for payments app partners and there was one term that had been added in the middle of our like negotiations around rev share and that was it was literally explicitly worded, you have to make sure that you're not using one of these

tokens in your flow. Uh and then kind of stuck it in there as a gotcha against us and it was all the tokens that were named in that first case including amp obviously. And that has since been removed but you know, a lot of changes have been made to those terms and the payments app and the

team that runs the payments app for quite some time so I wouldn't be surprised if we would be able to to get that live again if there were merchant demand pretty quickly. At some point in the future. >> Yeah, that that that experience um Trevor I think I mean watching from afar even you know, was was kind of

gut-wrenching to to see so uh um really added with with the timing and then what else was kind of um industry in the press and unfortunately all those things were kind of

>> Well, look I think it's actually nice contrast with what happened >> with few questions about all of that. >> I mean I there might be a little bit of a lag on your side um it I'm getting a little bit of choppiness in some of what you're sharing but uh it's coming through clearly now. I was I

was just going to mention that in terms of talking about this publicly today with respect to Shopify that happening on the same day that Reg Reg crypto was was released. Maybe there's something fortuitous about that or serendipitous. I I think the timing of crypto being something that's more widely understood in American government

is no time better than the present. Things are things are really looking up. But we can move on to the next question now. >> Yeah, um so we we had a a questions about wallet connect and you know, our team is you you know, we we see the same kind of marketing that

that everybody else here sees. So, one of you know, one of the questions we wanted to to address is how vital or synergistic is Flexa's relationship with Wallet Connect or are they competitors? And when envisioning the future of payments, the question is I I see users paying with USDC or any digital asset via

Wallet Connect from any wallet. Um and Wallet Connect seems to have the widest selection with Flexa as a plugin. >> In terms of what we see with Wallet Connect, maybe it's helpful just to share how we look at this from a technical perspective before talking about if there are any competing business interests. Um

>> business interests. >> We view our job as converting all of the choices that a user has at checkout and all of the options that they have available to them, we view it as our job from converting the user's intent to pay with a specific crypto asset on a specific network from a

specific wallet using a specific interface into a payment request. >> [clears throat] >> And maybe now I'm lagging. Um so apologies if everyone is hearing me in chops, but we're taking all of those different choices and those preferences and converting them into a single payment request on a single network for a specific asset.

Uh Wallet Connect is one ingredient in that puzzle, but it's not the most critical ingredient by by far and it's it's certainly not um going to replace that entire stack anytime soon. I think the Wallet Connect Pay protocol is great for small merchant businesses who want to manage crypto being received into their own wallets.

We just never see that in the market as something that merchants are looking to do. And maybe one day it'll be one part of a of a larger picture ecosystem and maybe there will be other decentralized pieces to the puzzle or or Casa um led initiatives to to sort of abstract away some of the complexity.

Uh I hope that day will come one day and I hope that we can continue to work to give merchants broader access to it. Uh as of right now wallet connect pay is is just not something that uh we found a way for Flexa to enable or expose to our merchants because all of our merchants

want to receive uh either USD or they want to have their assets converted automatically for them into a specific asset or set of assets. And and wallet connect pay um is at least in its current incarnation more about the interface between the customers wallets and the and the set of assets they have in their wallet and

then the merchants wallet and the set of assets they're willing to accept. Maybe there's a way for us to to bring that to life at some point in the future. I don't know. Um I I would say that at least as far as uh the the current moment we look at uh Flexa's role as exposing

the wallet connect sign SDK in the most seamless way possible. But the wallet connect uh sign API and and SDK is is just one of the 14 or 15 different interfaces that we see uh being required by users on a regular basis. I I think the the larger picture perspective here is we really like to

avoid uh betting on one particular technology or one particular chain as the winner in the future. I I think maybe the one exception we would make for that is that we think collateralization is a a universal enough solution to a problem that we see over and over again, which is just how do you guarantee settlement?

Um but when it comes to chains or when it comes to app interfaces or even crypto wallets or assets, we've just seen over and over again. We've been in this space long enough you can't just pick one and expect everybody to adopt that. And I think that's the case with with WalletConnect just as it is,

just as it is with EVM, just as it is with USDC or other assets. We can't pigeonhole any of our merchant customers into one particular technology. And where WalletConnect as an interface works really well for EVM wallets and works really well for um online uh you know, desktop to mobile interfaces, it it's not necessarily a

one-size-fits-all solution for um in-person mobile payments or purely mobile payments. Uh and and so I I just think synergistic-wise, Flexa and WalletConnect will be friends for a long time to come. Uh WalletConnect Pay is something we'd love to incorporate going forward. I think um Bergen might have also asked about Ingenico. I I think I've mentioned in

the past Flexa that has the same contract with Ingenico to build um Axium applications, but again, it's a question of merchant demand. And uh obviously we'll we'll stay tuned, but uh I I don't think this is a competitive question in any way, shape or form. And I hope that extra context around uh

what all of this actually is and what it looks like can help um anyone cut through some of the the chatter noise or or concern about um whether this is something that would ever compete directly with Flexa. They're they're very complementary in many regards. >> An- another question um uh you know, in under the theme of

partnerships, uh we got a question from Roger. Can you perhaps comment on the expected Arc mainnet launch September 16th? Do you see this synergistic to or a competitor to do what Flexa is building? They specifically mention Argentic in their announcement. >> Yeah, um I love this question because uh, the Circle product lead who who runs

Arc is one of my close friends from a long time ago uh, and and we talk fairly frequently about what um, sort of overlap there could be between Flexa and Arc. Uh, obviously as Arc mainnet is launched, we'll be supporting US CC on Arc. We'll be supporting um, other types of tokens that might fly on

Arc. I may even be supporting payments in Arc. Uh, the new native asset. Uh, because of our focus on cross-chain support and and uh, asset agnostic capabilities for merchants, I I think this is yet another critical piece of the puzzle. I think what's perhaps more interesting is how Final and Arc could work

together. And there's a lot about Arc that we like. I I actually tends to think that the the trusted validator setup is a pretty wise move in terms of how you might architect uh, a layer one today. Um, especially when you're trying to build upon the credibility that Circle has established with respect to

enforcing sanctions uh, and and watch list um, blocks. So, uh, that would be some comments on the upcoming Arc mainnet launch. Nothing we're not projecting anything. This isn't an announcement of an announcement or anything like that. Uh, uh, we just anticipate supporting Arc in the same way that we supported other other chains that um, the interaction and the

consumers want to pay on. So, uh, the the overlap of Agnostic uh, commerce in their announcements and and in some of the things we've been talking about lately and certainly are doing with Final. Um, I don't even know if I would paint that as a coincidence. I think that's just good marketing at

this point. Uh, and I I think about how much of Cloudflare's blog these days is just dedicated to announcing new features um, with an agent mindset uh, in in how they'll be adopted, but uh that are useful for everybody. Like Cloudflare Cloudflare email service I think was announced not too long ago and

it's a giant Hacker News thread that was trying to tear the piece apart and say, "Wait a second, this isn't just for agents, this is awesome." Um Yeah, and so yeah, as far as them mentioning Agentic in their announcement, I I guess I would suggest that we get used to that because Agentic is

going to be a theme of a lot of announcements going forward um for various reasons. Any more questions we want to cover from the list, Abhinav? >> I think that was it. Um I don't know if we have some time for some live questions. >> mean I I know there are a few more

questions about Final that we definitely want to speak to. Uh I would love to spend maybe the last 20 minutes of this space talking about Final if we can, so that gives us 8 minutes for a couple of live questions. Um Why don't we open it up? Let's see. Is anyone I see one request to speak from John

Smith. I'm going to go ahead and uh give you access, John, to speak. Anybody else who wants to ask a live question, please go ahead and request now and we'll get you added in. John, the mic is yours. >> Hi Trevor, it's a honor to be speaking with you. I just had a quick technical

question regarding AMP's relation with Anvil. Um so it goes um as Anvil issues LOCs beyond Flexa payments, does incremental credit volume require AMP specifically or any asset in the vault? >> That's a good question that I'm not sure I am um I want to say qualified, but I don't even know if I have the answer to that

question. So you're wondering if Anvil issues LOCs beyond Flexa, I I believe those LOCs can be collateralized by any asset in the vault, but that the asset they're collateralized by is set at the time of lock issuance. So, it would probably require um some kind of coordinated effort either through governance to um

have locks issued only against AMP or uh to maybe build a community-led initiative around using AMP as the uh backing collateral for those locks. I don't think there's anything in the protocol that it specifically enforces that. Does that answer your question? >> Yes, it does. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Cool. Yeah. Got a question from Donald. We're going

to go ahead and give you uh speaker access now. >> Um >> And then the burden, you will be up next. I like that these are quick questions. I appreciate everyone uh being timely. Donald, I granted you access. There we go. >> All right. So, um uh just context question, co-founder of Agentech City taking curious and serious

serious Agentech developers to solutions. And one of the things that has come up is whether um collateralized payment and technology that you're developing might be useful. So, a quick question is we used a Visa issuer to be able to transact uh or to provide transaction data to our users so they could get

um user loyalty benefits. Um does you see what's happening um with your collateralization of transactions um a mechanism to help solve that kind of problem? >> Let's see. I would probably say no because as far as our transaction data is concerned, one of the things that collateralization allows us to do is cut back really severely on the PII or

personally identifiable information that we require from a let's say a card holder when they're making a payment. And so when you're paying with a a Visa card, for example, not many folks know this. I think you probably do Donald just by the nature of the question you're asking, but uh your name is contained in every card

swipe. Uh and so the name on card is not only used as a verification device, it's also used as a way to track you. Uh I've brought up a story in many presentations in the past and and I think some folks on this call probably heard me say this half a dozen times, but there was a a

funny story about um a Target family or a family shopping at Target whose whose daughter uh was tracked by her credit card number and Target started marketing pre-pregnancy products to her. The the father was incensed that Target would ever insinuate that his daughter had gotten pregnant um until he found out a few weeks later that she was

pregnant. And uh had to call back to the Target call center to and and apologize. And it turns out that Target had been tracking her spend data via her card number, attaching that to her loyalty account, and using that to send her direct marketing. And and pregnant card members or or expecting card members

uh was was just one of their cohorts. So, one of the things that we have done with collateralization is is eliminate the ability to trace customers between payments. Um that being said, in terms of loyalty benefits, if it's an opt-in flow, that's something that we absolutely want to enable. Um So, you know, my suggestion would be

yeah, reach out to our support team and and see if there's an opportunity for us to collaborate. >> Yeah. Okay, well, that's very helpful. I mean, we had um the Visa issue concerned about the same issue, but we had over 5 million people opt in in a 6-month period of time. So, it became an opportunity to bring

merchants to the table they didn't have otherwise who wanted that wanted to create pass the royalties along and we kept the we kept the data private to the user instead of to the merchant community. But anyhow, I I I appreciate the invitation. If you think what what was it where was it you say I

should bring that up? >> Uh just shoot an email to our our main customer inbox which is support@flexa.co. We can we can touch base. I mean, if you are able to get customer opt-in, that makes a lot of sense and that's very aligned with our philosophy on privacy. >> I thought it might help us find some

good merchants that would want to use the Flexa and that may give us a compatible co-interest. >> Very cool. Yeah, shoot us an email. I'm going to go ahead and approve the burden for speaking. So, the burden you as soon as your your mic turns on, feel free to ask your question. >> Oh, there we go. Can you guys hear me?

>> Yeah, we can hear you just fine. >> Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, I'll I'll keep it brief. I guess my first question is what type of evolution do you think is necessary for AMP if any to evolve more in line with the agentic transactions compared to you know traditional human payments. >> Awesome question.

Um Awesome. Awesome question. This is I hate this cuz [clears throat] I wanted to uh give Seth some time to speak and I see he's next on the list. That being said, uh this is such a good segue into what we're trying to build at Final. So, why don't we do this? I'm going to

circle back to this question, the burden, and I'll answer it as we get to talking about what Final is building. You mentioned that's your first question. Do you have a second question that you want to ask? >> Oh, oh yeah. So, I guess the the next one would be a pretty brief question. I

was just going to see, you know, what would you guys say is Flexa's biggest obstacle to date? >> Oh, boy. I think that's probably the same as it always is. Well, the one I want to answer is probably more confidential for the time being, but Flexa's biggest obstacle to date is probably related to the thing we we

always knew it was going to be, which is just the the adoption of these experiences by everyday spenders. And that would include people who are not even familiar with crypto in any way, shape, or form, but are are waiting for their bank wallet or their loyalty app to to upgrade and start integrating crypto

technology behind the scenes. I don't know if you have any other thoughts on what an obstacle for us would be that you want to talk about, but that'd be my two cents. >> Yeah, yeah, that that you know, what what what you just said would have been what I would have responded with, which is, you know,

convincing consumers that digital assets are a better way to transact. I think that that's been a challenge for the entire industry. It's been certainly a challenge for us, but it it's one in which, you know, we're now seeing um you know, more natural users. I don't want to I don't want to jump into

the next topic, but we're seeing more, you know, more opportunity with natural users of this tech coming from the agentic world. So, um so it's uh you know, but in terms of of challenges, hurdles, uh I think that would be it. Convincing everyone, you know, what's the right way, what's the better way.

>> Uh Seth, why don't you go ahead and ask your question uh and then we'll go ahead and pivot into talking about Final for the last 15. >> Sounds good. Thanks. Can everybody hear me? >> Yep. >> Perfect. Uh I wanted to first really quick echo something that Barky had um asked earlier um uh through text and I

would I wanted to echo it for him since he's in meetings during this call, but he asked whether we'll see any meaningful transactions on the Flexa network this year, whether it be through retail merchants, business to business, or agentic. And my personal question at this moment, I have kind of two, but one

is a segue into Final, which you'll be talking about shortly. My personal question is, is there any foreseeable need for any sort of advertisements for Flexa or campaigns similar to some of the ones that were being spun up in previous years, a few years ago? And um yes, and then on Final specifically, uh

I would just want to know more in detail, which I'm pretty sure you're going to speak to you about the role of AMP token and what Final is building cuz you've described balances as an agent-first financial primitive for payments. And you mentioned that today's rails are too brittle and slow for autonomous payments. And so, I imagine since you

we've already solved that through instant guaranteed settlement with AMP, that that might be a potential role. So, anyways, sorry I'm at >> Awesome. Well, I'll try and uh work some of these in over the course of the next few minutes. Um and I you know, first of all, will we see any meaningful transaction on the uh

transactions on the Flexa network by the end of the year? I think uh our our hope is always yes, and we see meaningful transactions all the time. Um I'm thinking of both [clears throat] in terms of value per network over a certain period of time. Uh you know, we we monitor the the largest

payments that move uh on on various chains and then see which of those are are Flexa payments and sometimes we're in the you know, leaderboard of that. Sometimes we have very large payments that hit our own internal leaderboard uh in terms of volume. And uh we I think we're more focused on the size of a

payment because it shows the collateralization working. If we can approve a very large payment in a second or less so that the merchants' checkout can proceed to pace, that's something that's that's really meaningful to us. Um So I you know, obviously we see those. We we monitor them. They're not things that we can shout

from the rooftops and I know we try and sneak some tidbits about those in the our various X spaces or AMAs. Um Any foreseeable future for any sort of ads for Flexa or campaigns? Flexa has always been a a B2B background player. I we're investing all of our growth marketing right now into merchant-focused

uh experiences and merchant-focused marketing and I I just got to be honest, that's doesn't show up on Twitter. It doesn't show up on TV. Uh maybe when we get to Shopify scale or um Salesforce scale for example, we would look at sponsoring uh a Super Bowl ad. Maybe when we get to Visa scale, we'd

look at sponsoring the Olympics, but that that's where you reach merchants and and how you reach merchant consumers. Um not necessarily uh at the the scale we're at right now where it's more about trade show participation, sponsorship of industry uh groups and um um councils and and a lot of word of mouth

uh or just reaching out through our networks. So that's that's how we've been spending our focus for right now. I don't think we'll we'll be doing a TV ad anytime soon. Um because we're we're working through merchants' experiences and and enabling the type of in-person checkout or online checkout or agentic checkout experience

they want to see. Um your last question on on Final, you know, wanting to know more about the role of Amp and what Flexa is building, we we got a lot of good questions about Final and I want to spend 15 minutes talking about some of that. I do want to honor Nami, who I believe posted the first

question about Final uh in the the request for for questions that I posted last week. Uh and Nami said, "We're all familiar with the interchange problem that Flexa fixes for traditional merchants versus credit cards, but thinking ahead and if it won't surrender any competitive advantage, always appreciate you thinking of us, Nami. Uh can you dig into the key issue or

issues that Final is focused on for agentic commerce?" Neemar wrote that uh they would love to hear more about Final and how agentic payments might help bridge the gap between traditional non-crypto users and Flexa. Lowercase base ETH uh asked, "Will Final be a direct competitor to X402 or will it be a tool to merge protocols like

X402 with Flexa?" I think there's a there's a yeah, a lot of interest in what we're building, which is super exciting. And uh in terms of of what we've been working on over the last several months, I think our focus has been twofold. Uh one is trying to map out what is needed in this space

uh in in terms of philosophical questions and answers and uh trying to get ahead of the next 10 years in terms of um you know, what are what are the the points that are going to become blockers that we need to be considering as we we build out our products. Um I'll give

some examples of that in a second. The second half has been actually building really cool that I I am incredibly excited to share with all of you soon that solves real problems for real people and those people can be individuals using agents in their own harnesses through Hermes or open claw. Can [clears throat] be merchants

who are looking to accept agentic payments on their websites or through payment links. And it can also just be um sort of these these adjacent experiences that we started discovering where if you build something that works really well for an agent it also tends to work really well for human in some surprising ways and that has

started to come about as we've built out some of the balances products. Um So you know from a philosophical perspective and and I mean I I think you might have some opinions on this as well. One of the things that we've been wondering about is how you interface with an agent that is

operating independent of any human oversight. And this is something that I know we've been thinking about, our friends at Stripe have been thinking about a bunch of others in the space have been thinking about. I don't know if Abhi you want to kick us off sharing some of what you've been considering in that

space cuz I know we've been talking about it a lot. >> Yeah, it's a real interesting question. You know and and sort of a real fun academic exercise. I could tell you you know we we participate in a lot of industry kind of compliance round tables and and this has been a topic that

seemingly no one has solved but there are a lot of different views on on how to achieve it and you know the the questions about for example in in any kind of transaction there's some kind of KYC component. How do you KYC an agent? Um, if you have an agent using your protocol

or your your service um, and you have a terms of service, how do you enforce your terms of service against that agent? Um, and you know, what is you know, what is the true principal agent relationship and um, how is that memorialized um, in software? So, these are some of the questions we're

we're grappling with. Um, I could tell you it's definitely a frontier that um, we're approaching uh, really quickly. Um, you know, I I I know there's a lot of uh, a lot of new new news out there about, you know, the volume of of agent transactions that are that are already out there um,

in in in in the real world. Um, but but from a from a payments perspective, from a money movement uh, perspective and and just interacting with agents, I think it's it's really kind of interesting to to approach this problem afresh, you know, from uh, yeah, from from from sort of the edge of

the frontier where where it hasn't really been determined yet. And everyone's trying to figure it out at the same time. I'm glad you used the word afresh. I well, I I was going to say fresh, but I think you used the word afresh, which I also like. Um, because the approach we're taking with Final is

a little bit unique and bespoke as well. >> We've been calling Final a design workshop. And what that really means is that we are trying to combine three unique skill sets and we're trying to put Final squarely at the center of this Venn diagram. And those skill sets are deep experience, really uh,

learned and and hard-earned experience in the realm of financial infrastructure and and specifically TradFi financial infrastructure. Uh, but also secondly deep experience building blockchain technology and and innovating on the frontier of blockchain technology as as a lot of team at Flexa has done over the last 8 years with respect to collateralization. But thirdly, um

deep experience and and skill in building customer-centric software. And that's the the sort of design angle. And so we look at our ourselves as sitting in the middle of this financial infra blockchain technology and customer-based or customer-centric software space as as kind of a sweet spot for where you need to think about how agents are going to

interface with technology going forward. And I think that that approach kind of explains why a lot of our work has to do with this very long-term thinking and more philosophical thinking. And then a lot of the work is is building experiments in code with agents uh and and using a lot of uh the frontier models to experiment

with and and explore with um but we're we're making some cool discoveries and uh a lot of this is focused on how merchants will be able to experience crypto payments just by virtue of our work with uh with Flexa. I also think that there is an opportunity for more consumer-centric roles in the

future. And and I think the way that we look at Final versus Flexa, which is a little bit unique, is that Flexa serves a merchant audience and is very, very merchant-centric in terms of how it exposes some of the cap- capabilities and technologies it's built. Whereas Final is is more developer-centric. Final is more um

a uh a showcase of different tools that we hope to offer in the future. Uh that anyone can come to and and be able to interface with on their own terms. And some of those tools uh are are broader than just uh Flexa-powered merchant payments. Some of those tools may expand to involve uh

giving agency ability to pay online using a a MasterCard, for example. Um, and and so I think some of the the partnership opportunities for Final are even more boundless. But one of the things that I know is going to be pretty consistent between uh, these two companies and and the biggest clue is

right in the name, Final. Uh, is is this settlement guarantee that allows uh, customers, I'll I'll I'll use that word kind of in potentially could be a human customer, could be an agent customer, to know that what they're working with uh, is is guaranteed very very quickly or is made final um, near immediately.

And uh, again, there's there's just no other better way to achieve that that we found so far than through collateralization. And as I said multiple times on this call and I'll iterate once more uh, just for the utmost clarity, we think Amp is a a really key uh, player if not the best

universal digital collateral token that's on the market right now. We're not looking to replace Amp, we're not looking to uh, find some upgrade to Amp that we can airdrop on on everybody because again, that's not Flexa's role in this space. But we do think Amp is a is a very sufficient token um, for what we foresee

going forward. And just circling back to um, one of the questions that was asked earlier, is there an evolution necessary for Amp to evolve more in line with identic transactions? I don't think so. I I think um, and I know there's there's been some talk over the years of Amp being deployed on a another chain.

I think that could be interesting if there were demands to move Amp on other chains, which we haven't uh, yet seen, but as far as uh, Amp's ability to collateralize payments, um, it it Amp has been providing sub-second um, finality on on payments for years on a chain that has uh, deterministic finality of, I think,

18 minutes or up. So, I I don't see any issue with how AMP is currently built. Uh, I don't see any issue with the existing AMP collateral managers in terms of being able to facilitate uh, agentic payments. And, um, just to sort of circle back to one of the other questions that was asked, uh,

in terms of how Final might leverage, uh, AMP to I don't even know if this question was was on the list, but I remember there was a question around some of the exploits that have recently surfaced potentially or hypothetically related to XPR O2. Final's not going to compete with XPR O2. I think Final will be able to

provide XPR O2 support to merchants. Flexa might even be able to support XPR O2 on on Flexa payments. Um, but collateralization, I think, is a key to ensuring that if a merchant receives a payment over XPR O2 or MPP or via AP2, uh, or just over even a card payment maybe someday, uh,

and I'm not even telegraphing right now that that's something we're going to do because we're we're not collateralizing card payments at the moment and and have no plans to. Um, I I think collateralization is the way that you make sure that merchants can be made whole. And and that's just been proven to us

again and again and again, uh, over the years. So, I I don't see us shying away from that anytime soon. Um, but like I said, >> And and like you said, I mean, we're approaching the problem fresh. Uh, there was one last question because just we're coming up on time and I believe it

was Chris who asked if we're at liberty to talk about balances. Would love to hear some insight into that. And I would love to share. I'm I'm just glad that people are starting to ask questions about Final because it's something that, uh, you know, I've I've been sharing with the the Flexa team and I think everyone

is getting pretty excited about. Um, balances are a very intentionally sharp tool that we are building for agents to use and potentially for humans to use as well. Uh in order to more seamlessly and easily interoperate with other types of financial accounts. And one of the hunches that we have that has been born out through some of the

experimentation we've done is that if you can use on-chain technology uh like crypto wallets but you can pair down the features of a crypto wallet into something [clears throat] more akin to uh uh what you would see when you log into your bank account as a as a dollar balance uh with a set of transactions behind it

or maybe a euro balance or a yen balance depending on where you are in the world. Uh and if you can pair a crypto wallet down so that you just can store one asset at a time it opens up a lot of interesting and more seamless opportunities uh for how that balance can be used. And

so so I think the way that has been most helpful for framing what a balance means at least as as far as we've talked about it is that a balance is like a wallet but it's a single balance. And uh some of the the tech that we started to build around the edges of what that looks like is

super interesting and it's starting to unlock some uh kind of incredible use cases. The why of that uh is even maybe more interesting which is just if you're an agent and you have you know virtually unlimited memory when it comes to keeping track of your keys or of of all the wallets that you're managing

uh would you rather have a a single wallet that can only be secured in one way, right? Uh where the the key material that can be lost or or compromised would then allow access to all of the different assets that you hold in that wallet. Or would you rather have a single balance that you maintain for

each of the assets you're storing for different purposes? And that then opened up some some thinking in our little final design workshop around what that could also unlock for humans. To put it another way and and maybe this is the the piece that has helped that analogy click a little bit more is that every time any of us

use a crypto wallet we want to send funds out or we want to check our balance or we want to swap an asset. There's this invisible step that none of us really pay attention to and now I promise you won't be able to unsee it, which is you have to choose the asset first. You open up Rainbow or you

open up MetaMask and you want to see how much ether you have or you want to see what your USDC balance is, you have to tap on ether or USDC. If you want to swap you know, SOL for BONK, you have to tap on SOL before you can swap to BONK. You can't just tell

your wallet to swap to BONK. And and so what we realize now is that every time we as humans are using these wallets, we're actually choosing the balance that we want to use or we're choosing the asset that we want to use each time. And when you think about how an agent wants

to use a wallet, an agent doesn't want to do that step. An agent wants the fastest path possible. There's there's a lot of path optimization that happens with agents. They just want to say, here's the the balance that I keep safe for holding my Bitcoin and now I'm going to move and do

something with my Bitcoin or here's the balance that I don't keep as safe for my USDC and now I want to do something with that. And it turns out that when you pair a wallet down to just a single balance the ability to have that balance interoperate with other types of financial accounts gets

really really interesting. Uh so I'll leave it at that. I think it's very possible that by the time we next have a space, we might even be able to invite some beta testers um on to share a little bit about their experiences with balances. Uh and so it you know, on that note, if you want to

be a balances beta tester, uh hit up the email on the website. I believe it's hi@final.net. And we would love to bring you in to our next tranche. Uh I hope that has wet some folks' appetites um with respect to what it is that we're building at Final and why we think it's important and and

maybe even framed a little bit better what Final is trying to do, right? We're we're looking out as at the very very long end of the spectrum of time thinking about what is coming uh and and not what is necessarily happening next month or in the next 2 months, and then we're building the

things that are going to be required uh a decade or two from now. And I'm I'm going to talk a little bit more about the philosophy of that or some of the maybe history situating of that uh in in a future space, but uh would also love feedback from anybody on on how much you want to hear about that

stuff relative to to Flexa stuff. I know we're at time or just over time. Um so unfortunately can't uh open up for any more questions, but uh Abhay, anything you want to add before we sign off for the evening? >> No, really really excited to to hear what's next and um you know, like I

think there was a question earlier on about what were the great What are the biggest challenges that Flexa has had, and I think you know, what what's being built at Final or what's you know, being um dreamed up at Final is is something that is almost a necessity um for for for future

of programmable money and intelligent commerce. So, so really excited to to see what happens next. >> Well, if there's one thing I'm really proud of, I think the team at at Flexa and also at Final is just um some of the most thoughtful, meticulous future builders uh in terms of of actually creating the objects and artifacts,

pulling them back from the future and and bringing them into the now um that I've had the pleasure to work with. So, it's a it's a skill we keep on practicing and we're getting better at it. Excited to share more in the future. Uh this is not a soon TM. But, would really

just ask if anybody who was able to join this space live or as you tune in uh up to the recording later, let us know your feedback. Let us know your feedback on timing, content, um any and all of the above. And if you have more questions, uh feel free to share them and we'll hope

to get through them on a a future event. But, thank you all for joining and taking the time. Appreciate each and every one of you. Uh hope you have an enjoyable rest of your Tuesday evening or morning or uh you know, Wednesday, wherever you are in the world. Thanks again for joining and

we will talk to you soon. Take care. >> Thanks.